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Message Icon Topic: Let's Pick Your: C-Rank Scissors
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RickDiasPK
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Topic: Let's Pick Your: C-Rank Scissors
Posted: Feb 17 2012 at 3:13pm
Quote RickDiasPK Reply
Thread Closing Edit: Deleted as I will not be participating in SDGO any more.


Edited by RickDiasPK - Apr 25 2012 at 9:29pm
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phys6
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Posted: Feb 17 2012 at 4:12pm Quote phys6 Reply
I thoroughy enjoyed this post as well as others you have made. I look forward to your future work. This is sticky information.

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ComradeHX
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Posted: Feb 17 2012 at 6:59pm Quote ComradeHX Reply
With black rick dias; the best way to play is close range bombing from above.

And it can actually do a decent melee(bird lime + generous use of melee dash) against paper that has PS armor.
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RickDiasPK
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Posted: Feb 17 2012 at 7:25pm Quote RickDiasPK Reply
phys6: Thanks! Future installments will be a bit more brief since I won't have to repeat all those forewords ("four-slot or go home", etc.).

Comrade: Definitely interesting points. Mind you, the Rick Dias write-up was long enough as it is (gosh, it's as if I was playing favorites!) for something meant to be "quick overview of several good C-Scissors." Your advice is apt, I just omitted those tidbits due to this being an overview and not a Guide to the Rick Dias.
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Scilya
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Posted: Feb 20 2012 at 3:53am Quote Scilya Reply
please include aries my fave c type XD :) still trying for ex skill with it sigh ^^
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Mistori
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Posted: Feb 20 2012 at 12:40pm Quote Mistori Reply
Nice post.

My opinion is still that the only decent ones in our current content are the Zaku I cmd & Zaku II Fz.

Waiting for Zaku II Mine Layer (for the lulz) & Ginn (Missile Launcher). But we'll be waiting a while
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ComradeHX
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Posted: Feb 20 2012 at 1:55pm Quote ComradeHX Reply
Originally posted by Mistori


Waiting for Zaku II Mine Layer (for the lulz)

This.

S**tting mines vs. someone trying to sneak up on it = lulz.
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RickDiasPK
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Posted: Feb 20 2012 at 2:29pm Quote RickDiasPK Reply
Originally posted by Scilya

please include aries my fave c type XD :) still trying for ex skill with it sigh ^^


In accordance with your request, I took a look at the Aries today. I could include it, but I don't see what it immediately does better than the GM III. This isn't a flat-out refusal, but I am going to challenge you to convince me to include it.

"It's my favorite" is not, on its own, enough. The Rick Dias Black is my favorite, but despite its inefficiencies it is one of the few high ammo-count bazooka users in the C-Scissors category. And when properly customized, it's capable of doing tremendous damage at ranges almost none of its peers can match reliably (the Zakus can, but they run out of bazooka ammo quickly). Thus even as I admit favoritism for it, I can show it has compelling strengths.
 
On the other hand, what does the Aries have? I see a 'main rifle backed by missile pods' weapon arrangement, very much like the GM III. The most compelling feature I see is a no-dash melee attack, but that seems like it lowers your damage output compared to a GM III's 3 saber strikes, missile pod combo. For that matter, the Aries' missile pod seems to do less damage (same damage per missile, but two fewer projectiles according to what I'm looking at). It's true that the higher Attack helps even that out, but... I'm not convinced it's enough.

I see higher Speed, but lower Defense (Defense Up compensates for this, but the GM III has Reload Up instead) and no Shield. Now, Armor Piercing Ammunition plus a decent machine gun is nice (especially combined with a decent Attack stat), but this leaves the Aries at a severe disadvantage against Phase Shift Armor; it has no ranged beam weapon.

Put head to head, the Aries might beat the GM III; I would find this plausible. However, the GM III has fewer bad matchups overall due to having both a beam rifle and missile pods (as opposed to two solid weapons), plus better combos, while Reload Up somewhat compensates for the lower Attack stat (as does the extra two missiles per volley). Having a Shield plus higher Defense makes it notably more durable than the Aries, too.

So my challenge to you is this: Aside from it being 'your favorite', why should I include it in a list of intuitive or notably effective C-Ranks? The GM III is the obvious comparison to the Aries since both are 'main rifle plus missiles' C-Scissors, but the GM III strikes me as the better unit overall. I'm going to need more than an appeal to sentimentality, otherwise I'd be updating this list with every single C-Scissor ever on the basis that it's so-and-so's favorite.
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RickDiasPK
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Posted: Feb 20 2012 at 2:49pm Quote RickDiasPK Reply
Originally posted by Mistori

Nice post.

Thank you!

My opinion is still that the only decent ones in our current content are the Zaku I cmd & Zaku II Fz.

You're not alone in thinking that; I've met others who feel the same way. Certainly these two Zakus are the most intuitive of the lot, and have very useful Commander skills. They're popular for very good reason. If I had to pick just one C-Scissor to have for PVP, I would give very strong consideration to the Zaku I Commander.

However, I've had genuinely acceptable results with several other C-Scissors. This wasn't necessarily a list of just the best C-Ranks, some are included because they're enjoyable and can do at least decent in PVP. The GM Custom is a fine example; it's honestly fun to just play an intuitive mid-ranged shooter whose primary job is "shoot lots of bullets, and be rewarded for doing so." I may not win every game with it, but I win often enough to justify having one in my hangar for whenever I'm feeling like quoting South Burning.

The GM III is similarly fun once you get its Speed up to snuff. It's like a lesser version of the Re-GZ's MS mode. Move in for a melee combo, then backdash while firing missiles and toss in a beam rifle shot afterward. You can do this against both I-Field and Phase Shift units (perhaps replacing the missile or beam for another shot of the better weapon against that defense type, admittedly) and score very nice damage... better than its low Attack score would suggest, due to the sheer volume of fire you're putting out at melee range.

Rick Dias Black? Birdlime is a good tool (I've saved allies with it before, it's not as good as a Stun but it is useful), and the bazooka has enabled me to do tremendous damage to even S-Rank Papers. On rare occasions, I've solo'ed a wing zero ver. ew. More frequently, I do enough damage that losing my two point unit to let a teammate easily mop up the wounded five pointer was a great trade.

The Repair units have their own obvious value, as do the units suited for Char Gelgoog quests (I suspect that unit will be very popular). Some 'main combat' units like the astray just teach useful skills. The Jegan is a fun thrill-seeker unit; you die easily, but you punch well above your Rank and may take a high-value foe down with you if you get lucky.

Not everything in the list is something you should bring to a tournament match. Anyone using it as a list of stuff to get for diehard, "King of Clans" grade competition is in for a huge disappointment. However, most of these C-Scissors are at least passable in casual play and are easy to use or offer a fun gimmick. For the purpose of 'semi-serious public PVP', I think these units are at least good enough to have a realistic chance of winning.


Edited by RickDiasPK - Feb 20 2012 at 2:50pm
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Mistori
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Posted: Feb 20 2012 at 6:53pm Quote Mistori Reply
the current GM III is decent, but the CU Version of GM III blows it outta the water.

I had an OC5 GM III (CU) in hk and that was mighty fun to use. I used it exactly like my oc6 re-gz. But again yes, they're just not that great when it comes down to competitive play.
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ComradeHX
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Posted: Feb 20 2012 at 7:01pm Quote ComradeHX Reply
Originally posted by Mistori

the current GM III is decent, but the CU Version of GM III blows it outta the water.

I had an OC5 GM III (CU) in hk and that was mighty fun to use. I used it exactly like my oc6 re-gz. But again yes, they're just not that great when it comes down to competitive play.

C rank GM III is not great.

CR GMIII...lol, 2 gud.
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RickDiasPK
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Posted: Feb 21 2012 at 4:52pm Quote RickDiasPK Reply
Well, the GM III (Capsule 29, regular C-Rank version) currently offers a package no other unit does in its rank and type. Beam rifle, missiles, rapid reload. Yes, it becomes almost completely obsolete* once the GM III CU is released, but...

...It's not available here yet and it's going to be several months before it is. In light of that, I think the regular GM III is relevant when weighed against our current content. At the very least, it was the most meaningful comparison to the aries that I could think of. Of course, once the GM III CU is enabled on NA SDGO the question becomes even more hilariously one-sided; outside of a genuine love for the aries chassis, who would pick it over a GM III CU unless you know for sure ahead of time you'll be facing a Psyco Gundam or other I-Fielded unit?

*: Some will speak favorably of the Expose Full Potential/Latent Potential skill for use as a 'battery'/meter builder in Tag or Grid modes. This feature would keep it relevant in that one scenario, but even then I think I'd prefer the CU version overall.
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ComradeHX
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Posted: Feb 21 2012 at 5:38pm Quote ComradeHX Reply
GM III is good because ZZ line needs a few of those.
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gingersnapples
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Posted: Mar 16 2012 at 4:38pm Quote gingersnapples Reply
bump.
jegan is a fun unit. i might go back and remove attack from it and go custom IV hp and max defense.
the flag seems like a good unit as well, i perfer it better than the teiren and the enact.
what is your opinion of it?
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RickDiasPK
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Posted: Mar 17 2012 at 9:35am Quote RickDiasPK Reply
This is only my impression from fooling around with one briefly while grinding it for blueprint use, but...

union flag could be good. Right now the problem is we only get them in 2-slot varieties. I'll want to wait a bit until we can get 4-slot ones before I make one at length. Still, it has the right features to be good. Edit: Deserves a little more detail. Basically, I really like how mobile it is and how easy the linear rifle is to use. It fits a fine niche between bazookas and beam rifles, with the large projectile making it very easy to hit targets at all but its most extreme limits of range.

Rapid Reload keeps you firing, and the 'vulcans' are a decent finisher weapon as well as anti-Funnel tool. It's a very straightforward, mobile shooter with decent stats. I definitely want one, once we can make Custom 4 Slot versions. The fact we're limited to 2-slot versions for the time being is the sole reason I can't seriously recommend it, because this significantly hurts the unit's growth potential.




Edited by RickDiasPK - Mar 17 2012 at 12:04pm
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Noobverest
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Posted: Mar 17 2012 at 4:03pm Quote Noobverest Reply
bird lime reminds me of bird poo.

just saying.

and are you going to be updating on all of the C ranks that are going to be released?

lol

Edited by Noobverest - Mar 17 2012 at 4:03pm

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RickDiasPK
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Posted: Mar 18 2012 at 4:17am Quote RickDiasPK Reply
Depends on whether I stick around with the game or not. I am currently feeling kind of "meh" on it and keeping up on Dailies just in case I do stay, but right now... mm. Not feeling so great about what ogp is doing.
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gingersnapples
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Posted: Mar 22 2012 at 1:11pm Quote gingersnapples Reply
4 slots should be available in a few months. or at least the ability to make it four slot...
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Schwartz
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Posted: Mar 23 2012 at 12:19am Quote Schwartz Reply
What about GM ground type?

I haven't seen the scissor versions in action (C and CU)
but their homing missile on the paper version is pretty effective
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josg4
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Posted: Mar 23 2012 at 1:13am Quote josg4 Reply
I was yold GM III was the one of the strongest scissors units in the whole game if you pour C/OC into attack. All in all though I loved reading this post :)

Edited by josg4 - Mar 23 2012 at 1:13am
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ivanfw
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Posted: Mar 26 2012 at 1:25am Quote ivanfw Reply
What do you think about Union Flag?
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oranjeah
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Posted: Mar 26 2012 at 9:38am Quote oranjeah Reply
^^^The following is the response on union flag about 6 posts up, it helps if you read all the posts.

Originally posted by RickDiasPK


This is only my impression from fooling around with one briefly while grinding it for blueprint use, but...union flag could be good. Right now the problem is we only get them in 2-slot varieties. I'll want to wait a bit until we can get 4-slot ones before I make one at length. Still, it has the right features to be good. Edit: Deserves a little more detail. Basically, I really like how mobile it is and how easy the linear rifle is to use. It fits a fine niche between bazookas and beam rifles, with the large projectile making it very easy to hit targets at all but its most extreme limits of range.Rapid Reload keeps you firing, and the 'vulcans' are a decent finisher weapon as well as anti-Funnel tool. It's a very straightforward, mobile shooter with decent stats. I definitely want one, once we can make Custom 4 Slot versions. The fact we're limited to 2-slot versions for the time being is the sole reason I can't seriously recommend it, because this significantly hurts the unit's growth potential.
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Stormcaller3801
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Posted: Apr 07 2012 at 5:57am Quote Stormcaller3801 Reply
I'd like to bring two of my personal choices to your attention, largely to see what you think of them:

The Blaze Zaku Warrior is the one I'm less confident about in terms of capability, but it has a 'jack of all trades' feel to it. Mobility Up and Reload Up are a nice pair of skills that keep me from using the ranged special so they can remove the weaknesses of slow movement and medium reload speed on the weapons. The weaponry is a combination of beam and solid, so there's no glaring weakness there. To my knowledge it is the only C-rank other than the GM Ground Type with a homing weapon (the missiles), and the Firebees launch vertically so you have the ability to fire at a target from behind cover- at the cost of hating anywhere that has a low ceiling.

I'm presently upgrading it with a custom Defense/overcustom Attack setup.

The Gouf Flight Type is my preferred C-rank Scissors at the moment. I've been enjoying the fast reload rate and plentiful ammunition combined with decent mobility. It's a rare case where I find myself out of ammo, allowing me to stay at range and keep up a constant hail of fire. My biggest concern is that it seems like the damage output is low; I often find myself 'sandblasting' opponents, firing at them in a constant stream that leaves them with some life left over once I switch weaponry.

Skillwise, the High Performance OS plays to the suit's strengths while Vaccine-V has been a nice source of quiet support.

I'm focusing on Attack for upgrades, to try and mitigate the one frustration I have with the MS.
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